tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post1304129383655566779..comments2023-09-21T09:49:28.326-07:00Comments on Fierce Dandelions: Zen Teachers As Professionals - 2Nathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-74007757075085993152011-04-13T14:52:27.664-07:002011-04-13T14:52:27.664-07:00Kevin,
"But because we don't deny the ex...Kevin,<br /><br />"But because we don't deny the existence of things that we identify as individuals, we can't just blame the system, individuals must be responsible for their own actions." <br /><br />No doubt. I offer the tiered model that James Ford and a few others I have seen offer partly because the numbers of us between 25-45 years old with serious practice - committed Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-23282777190110007902011-04-13T10:34:46.044-07:002011-04-13T10:34:46.044-07:00I don't see what's wrong with the traditio...I don't see what's wrong with the traditional models of what makes a teacher a teacher or an abbot. There will always be issues, and they arise when tradition isn't followed just as unenlightened action arises when we stray from the precepts.<br /><br />A teacher should decide, for the right reasons, when a student should be a teacher. It should be a long and careful process as kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04679849282951730576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-78585033749523758372011-04-13T10:21:39.199-07:002011-04-13T10:21:39.199-07:00Our membership requirements follow a suggested 2% ...Our membership requirements follow a suggested 2% of income model with leeway up or down. Membership gives you discounts on classes, retreats and books as well as voting privileges.<br /><br />We have a very formal and detailed financial overview listing our total operating budget as well as percents that go towards grouped expenses (including our teacher) and revenues taken in.<br /><br />I kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04679849282951730576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-85677412729357357702011-04-13T08:35:49.815-07:002011-04-13T08:35:49.815-07:00Some, for sure. This ain't no paradise either,...Some, for sure. This ain't no paradise either, though, don't get me wrong, even if on balance I'd rather take our system than yours. The flip side of peasant egalitarianism is that we also hammer down nails that stick out too much, if you get my drift.Brikoleurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01318706625291447339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-53170001953912542152011-04-13T07:31:57.810-07:002011-04-13T07:31:57.810-07:00"As to retirement, healthcare and such, they&..."As to retirement, healthcare and such, they're covered by the excellent Swedish public health and social security net, just like everybody else." Obviously, all of this is being gutted here in the U.S. Or, in terms of health care - has always been precarious. <br /><br />Thanks for telling us about what your experiences are Petteri. I kind of wish we had a situation more like yoursNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-62852430843428925392011-04-12T22:40:07.408-07:002011-04-12T22:40:07.408-07:00It's interesting how different a color this qu...It's interesting how different a color this question takes from the values of the society in which it's embedded. This discussion is revealing a lot that's really very different about American and Scandinavian culture. <br /><br />Regrettably we've been going in the American direction over the past couple of decades, but a lot remains of our "peasant solidarity" – the Brikoleurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01318706625291447339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-1737684520925163832011-04-12T19:22:36.460-07:002011-04-12T19:22:36.460-07:00Hi James,
Thanks for stopping by.
Best,
Nathan...Hi James,<br /><br />Thanks for stopping by. <br /><br />Best, <br />NathanNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-57172274742075366422011-04-12T19:22:02.778-07:002011-04-12T19:22:02.778-07:00At the same time, we're predisposed to the ide...At the same time, we're predisposed to the idea of fees and salaries: capitalist models of exchange. And mixed in with that are notions of Zen teachers that come from societies where there is much more "built in" financial support. <br /><br />So, part of my point is that I believe one reason the idea of professional Zen teachers cranks a lot of shafts is that it rubs right up Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-46083738133295664402011-04-12T19:09:53.569-07:002011-04-12T19:09:53.569-07:00Mumon,
I think we actually agree Mumon. I don'...Mumon,<br /><br />I think we actually agree Mumon. I don't believe there is one template for everyone, but I have seen a fair amount of people arguing in one way or another. In fact, I'd say a big part of the challenge is that we have a lot of collective baggage around money - and thus you have all these people who do gyrations around finances in order to be dedicated students or teachersNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-71775641521901964962011-04-12T18:33:39.160-07:002011-04-12T18:33:39.160-07:00Feel free to call me James, Nathan.Feel free to call me James, Nathan.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03320860122104064884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-41980714303855087622011-04-12T18:31:11.202-07:002011-04-12T18:31:11.202-07:00And I'd point out he is ordained formally in R...And I'd point out he <i>is</i> ordained formally in Rinzai-shu - a Dharma nephew of D.T. Suzuki, Sokei An, and others.Mumon Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01116967568502451788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-20845371049816799112011-04-12T18:30:01.330-07:002011-04-12T18:30:01.330-07:00Hi Nathan,
Re: "the view that zen teachers s...Hi Nathan,<br /><br />Re: "the view that zen teachers should earn most of their living doing something else," why exactly do you think it's flawed? My "teacher" manages it - with a wife and raised a child that way.<br /><br />Why exactly is that an issue for you?<br /><br />To be frank, though I think <i>one</i> quibble is that there may not be a template for everyone. Mumon Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01116967568502451788noreply@blogger.com