tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post4510267207695663963..comments2023-09-21T09:49:28.326-07:00Comments on Fierce Dandelions: Buddhist Children? - Thoughts on Children in Buddhist Families and CommunitiesNathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-85030760549206772252010-12-13T23:11:56.629-08:002010-12-13T23:11:56.629-08:00Barbara wrote:
"Well, to be honest, through ...Barbara wrote:<br /><br />"Well, to be honest, through most of my parenting years I was battling massive depression and multiple job/financial crises, and I was hanging on to sanity by my fingernails. Zen practice helped, and without it I'm not sure I would have gotten through those years at all. But the calm, peaceful and happy stuff was not my life. [snip]My children turned out to be Dean 'Jagaro' Crabbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08675825920815339816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-32567905739277467122010-12-03T14:01:18.230-08:002010-12-03T14:01:18.230-08:00Our Sangha, which has heretofore been unable to pr...Our Sangha, which has heretofore been unable to provide much for children due to space limitations, nevertheless highly prioritizes offering a children's program (we have a new building now). While there are many intentions flowing form this, as a non-parent, I see this less in terms of the potential benefit to the children being exposed to Dharma, but more about <b>removing any barriers to Jomonhttp://nothingtoattain.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-43770485493181801742010-12-02T11:33:55.986-08:002010-12-02T11:33:55.986-08:00"I think naturally Buddhism has an affect on ..."I think naturally Buddhism has an affect on us (as parents) and through time kids come to know and see that there is something uniquely different and beautiful about my parent. and through this inquiry they discover and come to understand the difference. I know I did this with my parents."<br /><br />Well, to be honest, through most of my parenting years I was battling massive Barbara O'Brienhttp://buddhism.about.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-16866169317616860182010-12-02T08:55:00.748-08:002010-12-02T08:55:00.748-08:00Karen:
"All of this is intellectual. In prac...Karen:<br /><br />"All of this is intellectual. In practice, nothing and no one is excluded. We just respond appropriately to what is asked of us. Where's the debate?" <br /><br />If you survey North American convert sanghas, my guess is that you'll find working with children very low on the priorities. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. <br /><br />You can dismiss this Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-54069806427952547322010-12-02T08:38:29.882-08:002010-12-02T08:38:29.882-08:00Dean "I see what you are saying but my natura...Dean "I see what you are saying but my natural response is, of course, they are different community contexts so there will be differences. A family in itself is a community for the child but I don't think they differ that much. I think what you are experiencing is the parent's natural concern for their own child. This may be creating a sense of resistance but it's just about Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-47386251044851296022010-12-02T08:35:38.524-08:002010-12-02T08:35:38.524-08:00"I was a single mother with two children and ..."I was a single mother with two children and no support or models from a sangha for teaching or showing my children anything about Buddhism, so they didn't see it."<br /><br />Barbara, yes, I agree with that and I did think of that but didn't write it. I think naturally Buddhism has an affect on us (as parents) and through time kids come to know and see that there is something Dean 'Jagaro' Crabbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08675825920815339816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-41786080523692680282010-12-02T08:14:55.813-08:002010-12-02T08:14:55.813-08:00Interesting. I know of no parents who have a roman...Interesting. I know of no parents who have a romanticized view of childhood. I know more Buddhists who have a romanticized view of Buddhism. If we view either with an eye to "outcome management," we err. If you read my actual post, you'll see that I suggest the time to teach children meditation is when they ask, not when we ourselves have a notion that it will help them turn out Karen Maezen Millerhttp://www.karenmaezenmiller.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-7512044639401702742010-12-02T08:14:33.424-08:002010-12-02T08:14:33.424-08:00"I agree in raising children if you just focu..."I agree in raising children if you just focus on your own mindfulness you'll set a good example for them. They'll naturally see you meditating and ask questions when they are ready to understand."<br /><br />The problem with that argument is that it's unlikely many parents meditate in view of children, especially small ones. Meditation time is after the kids are in bed or Barbara O'Brienhttp://buddhism.about.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-68109236767183688742010-12-02T08:04:29.878-08:002010-12-02T08:04:29.878-08:00Thank you, thank you, thank you.
My children are ...Thank you, thank you, thank you.<br /><br />My children are grown now, but I began my Zen practice when my younger child was still in diapers. And my Zen sangha (I was a lay non-resident student of Zen Mountain Monastery in those days) gave me no hints, clues, or models for sharing my practice with my children. <br /><br />And by "share" I certainly don't mean "indoctrinate&Barbara O'Brienhttp://buddhism.about.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-36342357406104887002010-12-01T18:24:21.347-08:002010-12-01T18:24:21.347-08:00"This post isn't about assimilating child..."This post isn't about assimilating children into everything a Buddhist sangha does - it's more about wondering why there is - or seems to be - a lot of resistance to integrating children into sangha life, why the response is so much different from parents who [trimmed] bring their children to at least some of their spiritual community's functions."<br /><br />I wasn't Dean 'Jagaro' Crabbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08675825920815339816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-53661757288600458342010-12-01T18:22:35.887-08:002010-12-01T18:22:35.887-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dean 'Jagaro' Crabbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08675825920815339816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-84333487403362714222010-12-01T11:13:47.149-08:002010-12-01T11:13:47.149-08:00I want to be clear that I'm not advocating for...I want to be clear that I'm not advocating for a one way is the right way answer here. Mumon wrote about not bringing his child to zazenkai retreats. Makes sense. <br /><br />This post isn't about assimilating children into everything a Buddhist sangha does - it's more about wondering why there is - or seems to be - a lot of resistance to integrating children into sangha life, why theNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-82469642147047242272010-12-01T10:51:05.073-08:002010-12-01T10:51:05.073-08:00It's interesting how little the community aspe...It's interesting how little the community aspect is touched upon in the comments, as well as in Mumon's post, which I took a look at. I find it quite curious how sangha - and actually functioning within in a sangha - seems to be mostly about being with adults. Perhaps I'm mis-reading things. <br /><br />I'm also interesting in how much people seem to really trust the nuclear Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-33324927351115433132010-12-01T09:53:46.367-08:002010-12-01T09:53:46.367-08:00I'm not a parent so my view on this probably w...I'm not a parent so my view on this probably would change if I had a child.<br /><br />But I see this as something that you might hope would be child dependent. It's so strange how parents and adults just say "children" should be raised such and such ways, as if each child isn't their own unique individual with unique needs. Some children might WANT to explore meditation gnizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18043750358888135458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-79781796256462763342010-12-01T07:58:26.349-08:002010-12-01T07:58:26.349-08:00Can't speak to Buddhism in particular, but in ...Can't speak to Buddhism in particular, but in terms of general spiritual education, as a parent my view is that the most important thing is to be in tune with where your kids are as they grow and change. Bringing them to the sangha, church, temple, or whatever may be great at one age, but counter-productive at another. <br /><br />As a general rule, I think that exposure to spiritual Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06954595575931726418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-11827387795539560402010-12-01T04:58:42.651-08:002010-12-01T04:58:42.651-08:00Hi Nathan, did this already go through??
Someone...Hi Nathan, did this already go through??<br /><br />Someone else had sent me a link to the Cheerio Road post so I had read it, and actually I agree with a lot of it. Although, like Nella Lou, I take issue with her rather romanticized view of childhood, I do think the strongest lessons for our children come from our actions that they see us doing every single day. <br /><br />While your point Robynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06391086267728343589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-9440006505391627052010-12-01T04:58:03.134-08:002010-12-01T04:58:03.134-08:00Hi Nathan, Someone else had sent me a link to the...Hi Nathan, Someone else had sent me a link to the Cheerio Road post so I had read it, and actually I agree with a lot of it. Although, like Nella Lou, I take issue with her rather romanticized view of childhood, I do think the strongest lessons for our children come from our actions that they see us doing every single day. <br /><br />While your point about community may be valid, I think Robynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06391086267728343589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-12915372669842444022010-12-01T03:30:47.178-08:002010-12-01T03:30:47.178-08:00This will, unfortunately, I thin require a blog po...This will, unfortunately, I thin require a blog post rather than a comment for response, as there are issues in a) parenting and b) one's own mind here.Mumon Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01116967568502451788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-82331251501049953062010-12-01T02:45:19.277-08:002010-12-01T02:45:19.277-08:00"The aim of all Buddhist practice is to retur..."The aim of all Buddhist practice is to return to our natural state of wide-eyed wonder and unselfconsciousness that we can observe in our children many times a day."<br /><br />Yes, I don't agree with this statement either. Not-self and mindfulness as an experience is very different to what we witness in children. There may be distinguishable qualities that appear similar but Dean 'Jagaro' Crabbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08675825920815339816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-74295188786721118902010-11-30T23:22:20.636-08:002010-11-30T23:22:20.636-08:00Ted Biringer had an interesting post called
The ...Ted Biringer had an interesting post called <br /><a href="http://dogenandtheshobogenzo.blogspot.com/2010/11/sole-purpose-of-zen-buddhism.html" rel="nofollow"><br />The Sole Purpose of Zen Buddhism </a><br /><br />In it he quoted from the Shobogenzo:<br />"What was given to him was given solely for the purpose that he might master the wise perception of a Buddha. <b>It was solely the wise NellaLouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07247769132258539996noreply@blogger.com