tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post5761207688004253351..comments2023-09-21T09:49:28.326-07:00Comments on Fierce Dandelions: Catholic Church Closings, Rational Buddhists, and the Murder of the ImaginationNathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-74867178465978696302010-10-20T15:10:50.114-07:002010-10-20T15:10:50.114-07:00Hey Andrew,
I think you hit at some of the exact ...Hey Andrew,<br /><br />I think you hit at some of the exact reasons I'm not so keen on Batchelor's work. I agree - if it all comes down to reason(as it's defined in a "Western" context), we are screwed. <br /><br />NathanNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-66216478506663668702010-10-20T12:36:56.603-07:002010-10-20T12:36:56.603-07:00great post and comments, Nathan. I think there is ...great post and comments, Nathan. I think there is implicit hubris (or at least delusion) in notion that there is an "original" meaning of the dharma that can be found at this point. The Pali canon is culturally-conditioned, after all. Batchelor's most recent work would be much better off if he presented it as simply his understanding (as he seemed to in earlier works), and andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04744841288367902275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-86488432906932762882010-10-19T07:46:03.852-07:002010-10-19T07:46:03.852-07:00Miguel,
Yes. I agree that the article I linked to...Miguel,<br /><br />Yes. I agree that the article I linked to had too much blasting in it, and not enough openness or discussion. There was one point in the middle that interested me, which is why I linked to it. <br /><br />NathanNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-42415645179601176092010-10-18T23:50:56.176-07:002010-10-18T23:50:56.176-07:00Nathan, I agree with you. The only point I would a...Nathan, I agree with you. The only point I would add is about "discussing". As I pointed out in my first comment the article you link to is titled "On Bullshit and Stephen Batchelor". That title is the opposite of "discussion", it's an immediate, and irrational put-down.<br /><br />But, yes, otherwise I'm sure we agree. And, yes, while I reject taking Jesus&#Miguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09660388837358003349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-20976641626500414912010-10-18T13:07:26.446-07:002010-10-18T13:07:26.446-07:00The thing about religion—any religion—is that what...The thing about religion—any religion—is that whatever else it is, it's about internal, personal experience.<br /><br />Whatever else personal experience is, it's not wholly rational. I'd even argue that it's not <i>primarily</i> rational. To my mind, a wholly rational religion is as absurd as wholly rational music or wholly rational poetry. Boring and hollow, too.<br /><br />I&#Brikoleurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01318706625291447339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-57046049637548424502010-10-18T12:58:12.776-07:002010-10-18T12:58:12.776-07:00"There is no reason to get attached to either..."There is no reason to get attached to either his way or others!" <br /><br />True. But I see no harm in discussing some of it all the same. <br /><br />I don't think we disagree about the benefits of an empirically based path. My point is that it can't be all about "the head," intellectual, rational, concrete. Which is why I fully am open to wild and perhaps fanciful Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-41346240920495852752010-10-18T09:33:30.584-07:002010-10-18T09:33:30.584-07:00I was born and raised Catholic. I don't see mu...I was born and raised Catholic. I don't see much difference between people having fits about someone who "has figured it out" and comes up with a somewhat different reality model. Catholics have it worse than Buddhists I think; the church is a mighty political warhorse, incapable of self-criticism and unable to come down to speaking terms with much of its lay congregation.<br /><br Miguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09660388837358003349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-22487212357445670542010-10-18T07:39:02.527-07:002010-10-18T07:39:02.527-07:00Miguel,
I think part of the issue is that Batchel...Miguel,<br /><br />I think part of the issue is that Batchelor seems to be prone to making claims that he has "figured it all out" about whatever issue is it. Which is different than saying - hey, folks, I have a different way to approach all this. <br /><br />It makes me laugh how often people try and turn around writing I do about macro-level issues and suggest it's about some &Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-11592683194457547382010-10-18T06:16:20.640-07:002010-10-18T06:16:20.640-07:00Batchelor has been a topic point on a forum I part...Batchelor has been a topic point on a forum I participate in elsewhere.<br /><br />I am baffled why Batchelor's views bother some so strongly (The title of the article you point to is "On Bullshit and Stephen Batchelor" no less).<br /><br />It's a different view. If one is going to be bothered by a different view, how do you explain the big differences between a zen buddhist andMiguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09660388837358003349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-88686083634346999682010-10-18T06:02:58.248-07:002010-10-18T06:02:58.248-07:00Kyong Ho, one of our Korean Zen ancestors, said, &...Kyong Ho, one of our Korean Zen ancestors, said, "Don't expect to practice hard and not experience the weird. Hard practice that evades the unknown makes for a weak commitment. So an ancient once said, 'Help hard practice by befriending every demon.'"<br /><br />I've noticed this is a persistent theme in Korean Zen: going through the unknown and the irrational to Algernonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01698040927871199780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-23809372125755611542010-10-17T21:17:41.753-07:002010-10-17T21:17:41.753-07:00thanks for discussing this. I also read a book a f...thanks for discussing this. I also read a book a few months back called "Why I am a Buddhist" that had a very Batcherloresque approach to Buddhism--so lifeless and one dimensional it almost had me questioning why I practice. People get stuck on the rationality thing -- as if a spiritual system is somehow superior just because everything about it can be put under a microscope and be Ven. Lawrence Dō'an Greccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07256592090086439888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-72978723785360731612010-10-17T07:31:02.608-07:002010-10-17T07:31:02.608-07:00Gotta love enlightened lunatics :) Thanks for post...Gotta love enlightened lunatics :) Thanks for posting.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-86185935812149488022010-10-17T03:21:04.720-07:002010-10-17T03:21:04.720-07:00I was just reading this somewhere else on the web....I was just reading this somewhere else on the web....<br /><br />Crazy Wisdom<br /><br />"The European court jester of the Middle Ages saw through pretence and hypocrisy, and enjoyed <br />poetic license in unhesitatingly telling things as they are. The `holy fools' ("Fools for Christ's Sake") <br />such as St. Symeon of Eemesa of the Eastern Church; Sufis including the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com