tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post4234331792872769094..comments2023-09-21T09:49:28.326-07:00Comments on Fierce Dandelions: Institutional Oversight of Zen Part TwoNathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-68255056396480489752010-08-01T09:28:58.264-07:002010-08-01T09:28:58.264-07:00Sorry Vernon
I disagree with your assertion about...Sorry Vernon<br /><br />I disagree with your assertion about prescriptive psycholgism<br /><br />i suspect I disagree with your characterization of the new healthcare law. It IS the law of the land. It belongs to you and me and millions of people including Obama. We can improve health care in this country; we can also have leaders who are trustworthy.<br /><br />many ordinary people in positions Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-30468840840031850592010-07-30T12:25:46.494-07:002010-07-30T12:25:46.494-07:00Clergy, teachers, camp counselors, amusememnt park...Clergy, teachers, camp counselors, amusememnt park workers, ice cream vendors, professors, doctors and such should all undergo rigorous psychiatric testing under Obama Health Care Overhaul before being allowed near children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-17448525317871946672010-07-28T16:27:25.753-07:002010-07-28T16:27:25.753-07:00Emma,
The book was "Shoes Outside the Door&...Emma, <br /><br />The book was "Shoes Outside the Door" by Michael Downing. It's specifically about San Francisco Zen Center's history, but certainly would be of use when considering this broader discussion. <br /><br />Bows,<br />NathanNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-75539694404987159612010-07-28T16:09:51.723-07:002010-07-28T16:09:51.723-07:00Very cool post Nathan. I love how you've tease...Very cool post Nathan. I love how you've teased out the complicated dance between individual responsibility and group dynamics. <br /><br />I'm trying to think of a book about this problem in US zen (was it about one particular centre in california?). Is it called something like 'leave your shoes at the door'...I can't remember. I'd like to read it though.Sara https://www.blogger.com/profile/12095262161793214914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-37326378286856678692010-07-28T14:20:54.752-07:002010-07-28T14:20:54.752-07:00This post and the comments are so refreshing; than...This post and the comments are so refreshing; thank you, everybody. It has occurred to me that there might not be any need for the posts I am writing at all, but making myself write it out has helped clear some my unexamined cobwebs, so I am moving forward.Algernonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01698040927871199780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-20398275348690758342010-07-28T12:31:00.349-07:002010-07-28T12:31:00.349-07:00Natan.
I guess my comment is probably a rant. Rat...Natan. <br /><i>I guess my comment is probably a rant. Rather than put it all in here and distract anyone from your purpose, I will only put in this little bit and anyone who is interested in the rest can find the whole thing on my blog at <a href="http://nutzenbolts.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/when-you-meet-the-buddha-in-the-road-kill-him/" rel="nofollow">Nutzenbolts</a></i><br /><br />I am always arniehttp://nutzenbolts.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-57692620858306616642010-07-28T09:05:36.585-07:002010-07-28T09:05:36.585-07:00LOL@Anonymous — what a perfect illustration of Nat...LOL@Anonymous — what a perfect illustration of Nathan's point about refusing to consider group dynamics, instead turning it into a simple case of "more compassion, better morals, less judgment."Brikoleurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01318706625291447339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-14900890128969842662010-07-28T08:46:00.513-07:002010-07-28T08:46:00.513-07:00This issue hits 4 suck points.
Using the old-cult...This issue hits 4 suck points.<br /><br />Using the old-culture list of 10<br />-no gods [teachers]<br />-no craven images [projecting perfection on ordinary human beings]<br />-no adultery [teachers or students]<br />-no false witness [aka crass opinionators]<br />-no craving someone else's spouse [ this means you]<br /><br />Pretty basic path really. Yet<br />-teachers get away with murder Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-21469433109870937202010-07-28T06:23:07.075-07:002010-07-28T06:23:07.075-07:00One quick addition re: the "we suck at group ...One quick addition re: the "we suck at group dynamics" comment. When I look around, I think this is true of humanity in general. Most of us struggle just to see how our own lives work, regardless of our religious or ethical background. <br /><br />Here we are - social creatures constantly making groups - and yet we don't really get how they function and malfunction very well. <br />Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-36356769712361717862010-07-27T23:38:31.429-07:002010-07-27T23:38:31.429-07:00"we suck at understanding group dynamics"..."we suck at understanding group dynamics".... Oh that is a good call!! You may be right on that one. Who knows? My community is mostly an online community, which I really like. Its more fluid in a way. I will wait with interest to hear what people say to your post.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04122762432900082546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-91760354252747586522010-07-27T21:48:23.603-07:002010-07-27T21:48:23.603-07:00Yes.
The whole discussion has been going on at th...Yes.<br /><br />The whole discussion has been going on at the wrong level of abstraction. It's not a matter of whether there should be big oversight institutions or not; it's a matter of understanding what kinds of poisons circulate socially, and then devising antidotes to those. <br /><br />I'm pretty sure the Vinaya Pitaka would have a few pointers—and perhaps a part of the reason Brikoleurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01318706625291447339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-17984212293642571802010-07-27T19:55:55.544-07:002010-07-27T19:55:55.544-07:00I don't have much to add to the oversight part...I don't have much to add to the oversight part of your post, Nathan. You reason it brilliantly, it seems, and you final words: "if there were easy answers, we'd already have figured them out, and put them in place" are spot-on.<br /><br />Most Zen practitioners practice within an organizational context. And an increasing number of organizations have adopted codes of ethics. And,Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09412033978642026623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-741227658356358863.post-83259200637411361782010-07-27T19:02:40.689-07:002010-07-27T19:02:40.689-07:00Another excellent post Nathan. I quoted you on you...Another excellent post Nathan. I quoted you on your last post, and I think it is refreshing to see the community talk about this stuff.<br /><br />You're right, there are no easy answers. Can we really stop a person intent on abusing there power as a teacher? I don't think we could without some absurd oversight.<br /><br />Thanks!Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14925360776637168540noreply@blogger.com